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Leighton Farm "A Retirement Program created by Thoroughbred Horsemen, for Thoroughbred Horsemen" |
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Journal of a Middle Aged Rider! ◊ It's been a while since I checked in - November 19, 2008I am up to 30 minutes per day of unsupported two point going cross country on my farm. Poor Bear, he hates it and to make things interesting he does the disappearing head trick. The great news is I can stay in two point and get his head up. My position has changed a lot. I feel stable, but I've also realized how uneven I am, both in the weight I have in each stirrup and the way I use each leg. This exercise is extremely valuable in propagating equal use of my body. I'm still at 10 minutes of posting without stirrups, but the quality of my position is drastically improving, making it a much more demanding 10 minutes. I plan to expand to 15 when my left leg is doing half the work. As it stands my right leg is stronger than my left. I've been the luckiest person in the world. I've gotten two lessons with Jimmy since the clinic and I'm becoming much more aware of the finesse my Bird requires of me. I feel great about the improvement I'm making and I'm motivated to keep on. It makes all the torture worth it. In fact, I can't wait to ride every day. I am so excited about what I'll learn today. It's like being handed a gift you get to open every day. I've been going to Sharon White's for the lessons and it is striking how light and supple she is while riding. Horses are so comfortable with her. I feel like I ride like I'm driving a Mack truck. This is good to know because now I'm very aware of every move I make and how I make it. This will be good for Birdie, actually it will be good for all my horses. ◊ Cross Country Clinic with Jimmy - October 21, 2008This was a big day for me and I had (1) a plan and (2) a lot of butterflies. Go back and read about my first cross country clinic with Jimmy to understand why I brought so many butterflies. I wanted to get to An Otherwise Perfect Farm with enough time to tack up, stroll around in a power walk and then do the "show the Bird to the ground thing". Cherie was on board with the plan and I was happy to have her there for support. She elected not to bring Katchi because of the upcoming ride at Waredaca. She insisted I bring my video camera so she could document my ride. I told her I didn't want to see myself ride right now because I knew I looked like a pile of crap on a horse. I just wasn't feeling tough enough to deal with it. So, I brought the video camera and Cherie documented my ride. If you've never read the book Riding Logic, by W. Museler. Read it. Every day, my Bird is improving from the knowledge in this book. It was astounding the way this horse who has so much anxiety was stretching and reaching to the ground as I warmed him up. Cherie videoed this and it was the first time I was able to see it. It's like - a miracle. Birdie is not only feeling better physically, but he's happier. He did this with other horses warming up all around him. He relaxed. I am truly amazed. I was glad she made me bring that camera. Jimmy always starts out by getting our names and he actually knows mine now and that's neat. He also said we'd start in the arena so we could get our butterflies flying in formation. Works for me. We then went out to the cross country course and started with some stadium jumps on a hill. We then transitioned to the actual cross country jumps. Jimmy corrected me a lot. Particularly about posting at the canter, which I didn't quite understand, but I do now. Also, soft hands, which are mandatory with Birdie. He is super sensitive to everything. I was holding my own and more stable than I had been in the past. Primarily due to my developing "Jimmy legs". Then he told us to jump this bench and then gallop a ways to what looked to me like a black ski ramp. GULP, this took me right back to Win Green and Birdie hanging over that ski ramp. Okay, self, this is how it's going to be. You can do this, you know this horse can do this. This is your moment of truth. Look at these other people, they can do it. Thank God I wasn't first. The first jump, piece of cake, although it was windy so I couldn't hear what Jimmy was yelling even though he had a megaphone. I know he wasn't yelling "Good job". We were now approaching the black ski ramp, how appropriate the color. Wait, leg, look at the jump, wait, soft hands, grab mane, WE DID IT!! It felt like crap, but we did it. Now Birdie was rolling right along and that's the fun part. He was happy, apparently I did a fairly decent job. Cherie later told me it looked good. I've got to thank Jimmy Wofford for teaching me. I'm beginning to think this really is possible. At the end of the clinic he told me he wanted me to watch that video and I wouldn't be happy. I knew that going in, but yet another sacrifice to learn. If you want to learn how to ride, you need to leave your ego in the house or the car. It's just an obstacle when you bring it to your horse. I watched the video. Cherie told me just watch one thing, your hands, or leg position. Well, my eye went right to my big bouncing butt. In racing we have a different name for posting at the canter. Monkey f**king a foot ball. There are a couple of amazing things about this. One is it was incredible how still I could keep my hands while my butt was going up and down that much, they really only moved when I was uptight. Two, I galloped at the track for 20+ years and never looked like that. The good news is this is going to be rather easy to fix. I think I've been way overthinking this two point thing. I'm trying to do everything but gallop the way I know how. I think I need to just gallop the horse. There is little difference between the way eventers and racetrackers gallop and I've been thinking they're totally different positions. I'm sure I'll still have to work on it, but the monkey thing, it's got to go today. ◊ Fair Hill Course walk with Jimmy - October 17, 2008Cherie, genius, had asked Jimmy at the last gymnastics clinic if he would be walking the course at Fair Hill. He said he was, and she asked if we could join in. He said yes, but he didn't know what time it would be. We had a plan. We would spend the entire day there and keep an eye on Jimmy. Sort of stalk him so we could do that course walk. It ended up being much easier because he posted the time on his site and Cherie was probably the first person to see it. We spent the day at Fair Hill. Watching the dressage, shopping, having lunch, shopping, checking out the exhibits, shopping. You get the idea. Around 3:15 Jimmy got up and we knew we had to go. He drove to the start box. We had to walk. I mean speed walk, at least we thought we were speed walking - there was no way we were going to miss a moment. He was walking the three star course with two riders, Josh Barnacle and Debbie Rosen. Cherie and I filed in behind. If you've never been to Fair Hill, the course is rather "hilly". It's not flat and we found out that Jimmy walks faster than any human alive. At least we think so. I ride 5 or 6 horses a day and I was winded and sweating in no time flat. Determination was our best friend and Cherie and I toughed it out. We were really happy each time we got to a jump, to hear what Jimmy had to say and to catch our breath before the next walk phase. We were feeling like wimps until Josh said he should have trained to do the course walk with Jimmy. Josh went on to put in a solid performance in the cross country phase. Debbie, put in a fantastic ride but fell with three fences to go. We were rooting for them both. We walked for 2 and 1/2 hours. It was fantastic and I learned a lot. At the end of the walk Jimmy asked how we were doing and I told him I had been reading the book he suggested. Also I had been doing the exercises. He asked if they were working and I said yes, but likely not enough, knowing I had a clinic with him on Tuesday. The book is Riding Logic and it's written in an old style that is very hard to follow. That said, it's doing more for Birdie than I ever thought possible. I was a quarter the way through the book and the author kept referencing the "badly made horse". I kept thinking "why am I reading a book about horses with bad conformation?" Well, keep reading, its about badly trained horses. The key part of the book is the part about showing the horse to the ground. My bird needs this more than anything and I've been working on it.
◊ Is there gain in this pain? - October 7, 2008I've been following my new program of working on my dressage leg and jumping leg everyday. It is making me sore. At the end of each exercise I am literally asking myself "How bad do you want it?" I must want it bad. So anyway, I haven't gotten to posting without stirrups past ten minutes, but I have been improving the method. Simply put, my leg without stirrups is improving. I'm also doing two point trotting up and down hills with zero support from mane, reins or leaning on neck. I'm trying to balance myself as long as possible, and it's happening even on the up and down. Birdie and I are working on that long, longer, longest dressage leg and opening my hips. Oww, oww, oww, but it's happening. Tightness in my left hip is what's lifting my right seatbone off the saddle. It's all good. So a test today. The Bird and I did our usual high powered stroll around the farm, followed by trotting where he chooses his head position and my hands follow. I then did jumping with my new improved, painfully acquired jumping position. That new leg works great. I have improved balance and the leg and hands are not depending on each other so much. We did the figure eight canter lead changes over the fences. Just a few weeks ago I could not transfer my weight to get the lead change in the air. This day it was systematic. No coming back too early to the saddle after the jump. Birdie started out his wound up self, but quickly relaxed and slowed down as he realized it was going to be a very different day to jump. Yes, the gain is worth the pain. Incentive to go on. I've decided that in addition to the leg/position work, I need to be a more giving rider. My horses are givers, probably most horses are. It's a frame of mind as much as an action. I want to give to my horses at every opportunity. I want them to expect to get what they need from me. Of course, giving the reins whenever possible, but I've decided it's more than that. Giving seat, lighter more flexible. Giving shoulders, elastic and kind. Riding with strength that allows me to give to them and accept what they offer, which is a lot. I ask them for something, but then I have to give them what they need to accomplish it.
◊ My legs are a pretzel - October 3, 2008
I galloped racehorses for around 20 years everyday and I miss it. If I had more time I'd go and get on a few every morning. As it is I can't even keep up with my regular schedule. Eventing is demanding in a different way than most disciplines. I have a great race rider leg, or at least I think I do, I very rarely ever came off a racehorse, no matter how bad things were going. Considering the numbers I rode, that's got to be a good indicator.
Now here I am 45 years old and learning to jump. At the same time, I'm doing dressage - every day. Here's the problem: Elizabeth wants my leg one place and Jimmy wants my leg another. They are both right, so what do I do? For those of you who are younger, I have bad news, you are going to stiffen up, really bad. This makes the whole thing even tougher. This is what I've decided to do. I'm going to do both leg positions every day. Yesterday, I rode the Bear in the usual program. This is my Jimmy exercise horse. I posted w/out stirrups and spent 20 minutes in two point without any rein contact. My legs hurt. The Bird has topline and anxiety issues so I've been hacking him around the farm a ton. He is developing a better topline and at the same time he is relaxing. I call them our "power walks", this was at Elizabeth's suggestion, but Jimmy basically told me to do the same thing. We do some trotting, but only so much as he remains relaxed. These days I stretch my legs longer and longer. No knee, lower leg on, relax and open your hips. I've got muscles screaming I didn't know I had - in the walk! We usually do about 45 minutes to an hour. By the time I get to Graycie, I'm warmed up and my legs have passed through the "pretzel" stage. They're as good as they're going to be that day. My goal right now is to have my position as correct as possible and use as little aids as possible to get the desired result. We are working on getting her on the outside rein with minimal inside rein use. Yesterday, I realized, as she growled almost the entire ride, she resents getting off the inside rein. Remember, she's a former racehorse and I broke her and galloped her the entire career. She expects certain things of me. As a racehorse she was tough and although she does not lay on the reins, she expects that inside rein to be there. Let me add, when Graycie growls, its a warning that something unpleasant is coming and she had three nasty little tantrums yesterday in the windy chilly weather. We got through it. I'm making progress and I know when she gets through this phase, were going to progress to the next plateau. Let me take a moment to explain what it's like riding this mare. She is so smart, so sensitive. We've been working on her canter depart for some time now and she does not consistently pick up the lead I want. Notice I said I want, not the lead I ask for. I am supposed to ask for the lead I want with my inside leg when her inside hind is coming under her at the trot. I can feel that, but my timing isn't always perfect. I realized a few days ago she picks up the lead I ask for, so to speak. If I squeeze while the inside hind is coming under, she picks up the correct lead. If I squeeze when the outside hind is coming under, she picks up the outside lead. "It's all up to you human." This is all good, because this mare requires me to be correct at all times. As my timing improves, think what I'll be able to ask for and get. Incredible.
◊ The third Jim Wofford Clinic - September 30, 2008
I didn't know I was going to ride in this one until the day before. I drew in after a cancellation and I was ecstatic! Cherie was happy too because we would be going together and that's always more fun. You can talk about what you learned with someone who was there. It's actually a better learning experience.
I had to rush to get things in order so I could go. My plan was to get up at 3 a.m., feed and tack up the Bear. He's my rescue and his new job is the posting with one stirrup and without stirrups. I think it's as hard on him as it is on me. I've worked my way up to 10 minutes left stirrup, 10 minutes right stirrup and ten minutes without stirrups. I'm not young and consequently I'm stiff. I realize how stiff because these exercises loosen me up and build my strength. I wanted to be my best so I wanted to do this before I rode the Bird with Jimmy. So there I was in the dark in front of my barn riding my Bear when JK pulled up. I know JK thinks I'm crazy. He's a retired jockey and although he's very interested in the "show type riding", he doesn't understand a lot of it. In particular, why I'd get up at 3 a.m. to torture myself and the Bear. My Bird was a little more "up" this time but that was okay, I was ready. I had religiously been doing my exercises and I was warmed up and ready to go. Billy Meister was riding a green horse in my class and what a pleasure to watch that kind of skill. The horse soaked up his quiet demeanor like a sponge. It's good to be around those kind of riders, it makes you realize there's so much more to this than just correctness. Gifted riders give something intangible to horses that brings out their best in an easy, unlabored way. Natural and effortless. Back to my struggle with position - my reality. I was riding, oh five minutes and Jimmy told me "lets pick up where we left off last time". We made a lot of progress with this horse and I want it to continue. That meant, get out of his mouth going to the jump, grab mane and wait. Birdie did duck out once at this clinic, it was an oxer and the first time he has ever ducked out during a gymnastic exercise. Jimmy and I had a discussion about leg position after that which really helped because with all this painful posting I've been doing, I don't really know where my leg belongs for jumping. Now I do. This was a great day and this time Jimmy didn't tell me to post without stirrups or post with only one, but I plan to keep doing it until I can post without for 30 minutes. He suggested I read a book, Riding Logic by Wilhelm Museler. I ordered it and it's on it's way. He wants me to learn about showing the horse to the ground. Cherie and Katchi - I've learned so much about training an eventer from this pair. I have the mind of a trainer, but I now have to apply it to a new discipline. I am in awe of the progress these two have made together in the past year. Last year there were many times, it seemed impossible Katchi would ever do a horse trial. Now the two of them are a team. Poetry in motion and it seems with each day they are more polished. They had a great day at the clinic. If anything, Katchi was too relaxed, almost napping at times. What a change from last year when alert was a kind description of Katchi's attitude. The focus at this clinic seemed to be on teaching Katchi to adjust to changes in the height of the jump. Of course, he made great progress, and Cherie was - well perfect.
◊ The second Jim Wofford Clinic - September 16, 2008
Birdie and I were brave enough to show our faces at the gymnastics clinic with Mr. Wofford at An Otherwise Perfect Farm. What a difference a few months makes. My good friend Cherie was in the 3' class and wanted me to do it with her. I thought about it and decided to do the 2'6". Not because Birdie couldn't do it, because he can skip over that height. I've been jumping with Steuart and doing it as well. The reason was I really wanted to have a good day, so I aimed low.
It was a perfect day. Birdie was relaxed this time. Jimmy really gave me some insight into how I can ride this incredible horse better. He gave me exercises to do to really improve my riding, even if they are - well painful. Did you ever post with only one stirrup? How about gallop? It is helping though, not just my jumping, but my dressage too. Oh, I also have to post without stirrups, which believe it or not is easier to do than having only one, at least for me. Jimmy told me he really likes Birdie and I can't tell you how much that means to me. This horse is such a giver, I am touched by how much confidence he has in me. We didn't even knock down a rail. Me and the Bird Man redeemed ourselves. What a great day.
◊ Our first dressage test together - September 14, 2008
No not Graycie and I, although I'm sure it's going to be quite a story. Birdie has dressage anxiety issues. He gets uptight at the sight of a dressage arena. I don't know why, but that's the horse I have. We entered in the BN Short Course at Loch Moy. What a gorgeous place that is. The people are fantastic too.
Dressage was first thing in the morning and my faithful friend Cherie was there at my side even though she was there to compete the fabulous Katchi. We had to walk down a long hill to the warm up arena. I told Cherie it seemed the more I drill the Bird the more uptight he gets. My strategy would be to try to ride him on as loose a rein as possible during warm up. To my amazement, he was going for it. I even did a little on the bit work and he was quite pleasing. Now it was time to walk up a small hill to an area with three dressage arenas side by side. Now let me inject that it's been over 20 years since I rode a dressage test. When Birdie saw the dressage arenas, he became extremely uptight. There was no bending to try to relax him, any movement is prohibited until he tones down a notch. Now I know, from riding racehorses, when a horse is this tight, and I mean tight, you just sit there. Any movement at all and they pop off. What is pop off? Well it manifests itself in many different forms, but it's never good and around a dressage arena it will probably be embarrassing too. The guy before me is saluting and it's time. Here I go around the arena on my very uptight horse who is now even more uptight. My only goal is to make certain that this wonderful horse does not have a bad experience. He needs me to do this right. I look down in the judges box and what do I see? It's my neighbor. I start to laugh which is great. What are the odds I don't ride a dressage test for 20 years and my neighbor is the judge? I'm going to get my third arm out now and give myself a pat on the back for the following reasons. Me and the Bird rode a very accurate test. His straight lines were pretty straight, his circles were round, he did his transitions where he was supposed to. It was not a competitive test because he was so uptight, but it was an accurate test. It is very hard to accurately ride a test on a horse that uptight, believe me. The best part of it was, although he never really relaxed, he did become more relaxed as the test went on. I am excited to ride the next one because I think we're on the right road, albeit a long road. We did not do the cross country course in competition, it was very hot and in two days I was to ride with Jimmy. We did school it later in the day and the most special thing happened. Birdie never has fun, he just does his job. I can never get him to take a treat and when I ride him I know he loves me, but he doesn't seem to know how to just enjoy. This day though we had a breakthrough. It was so hot and Cherie decided we should stand in the water jump a bit. Katchi was splashing up a storm and Birdie just stood there wondering what the hell we were doing. Waiting for me to decide the next task. Then it happened, after about ten minutes of standing there, Birdie put a hoof forward and splash! "Hey, I like this!" Splash, splash splash! Cherie and I were laughing and telling that Bird what a good horse he is. Katchi joined in and said, "Hey when I do this you tell me to cut it out." It was a good day. Cherie and Katchi did what they do best, they won their class.
◊ Christmas in July - July 21, 2008
It was Christmas in July for me today. I've not seen someone ride Graycie since she was ridden by a jockey in a race. She was beautiful. Steuart rode her and she did everything she was asked. She was a handful upon arrival but that stopped when she realized why she was there.
My lesson on Birdie was wonderful as well. We learned a lot last week and I was able to put it together during today's lesson. It was a good day.
◊ My First Lesson with Steuart Pittman - July 16, 2008
I had my first jumping lesson with Steuart Pittman today. I took Birdie and Steuart really read Birdie well. He recognized his anxiety and gave helpful advice on how to better handle it. It was a great lesson over all. However, I need to break this trend of falling off the first time I work with a new person. Yes, I fell off again. It’s terrible, but for some warped reason I am not embarrassed and feel it was a great day.
I’ve fallen off more in the last few months than the last 15 years I galloped and broke racehorses. I am athletic enough to get myself in big trouble. The only great thing is I am learning at an incredible rate. I just hope I get enough jumping skills before I break my neck. Birdie is wonderful and I know he is hoping I learn soon because he’s tired of me crashing him. What happened? I’m not sure, except I am not looking at the jump early enough. Part of that is because of the dressage training. I’m not supposed to turn my head, and in jumping I am so the horse knows we’re going to jump that. The other problem is I do a better than decent job of leaving the horse alone, but when he doesn’t want to go, I don’t have the tools to get him to. It’s a skill I need to learn and fast. I felt sorry for Steuart, a new student and she crashes her first lesson. He’s willing to take me on so I label him a brave individual. He really helped me and I will ride better today and every day just from what I learned yesterday. Next week I’ll be taking both Birdie and Her Highness, he said he’s willing to get on her. I can’t wait, it’s going to be fantastic to see him ride her. I’m excited to know his opinion of her.
◊ Just another day with Her Highness - July 6, 2008
Now for Graycie. I've had it, I'm not going to take it any more. Poor Graycie, she's bored so I think I'll let her abuse me. She has no respect for me whatever and it's all my fault. Today I decided I'd jump her because she's been such a miserable b**** the last week. I warmed her up and did a little canter in two point. Then I thought I'd do the five stride cross rails before I went over to the gymnastic. She did them at 800 mph at full MB (miserable b****). I naturally figured the oxer would back her off like it has in the past. After all it's not new anymore. Wrong, 900 mph at full MB. So over to the gymnastic - you know where this is going don't you? Poor JK, he had to put up with two MB's.
Okay, small cross rail, maybe 2 feet to start. Stopping her after was no picnic. So I thought a straight rail at the end might back her off. JK set it at about 2 feet. It slowed her down to 800 mph, with some really mean bounces at the end when I was stopping her. So we put the second cross rail, set at 2 feet up. She did it really fast and made it through. Totally ignored my desire to slow down and be reasonable. Now, to top it off, people are shooting guns at Glenn's, my neighbor, and she, being the nosy one, wants to pay attention to that - not to me, her stupid human. She's approaching and stopping, going sideways, running out, having nasty tantrums. I look at JK and tell him I've ruined her. I don't know what I'm doing and she's decided she hates jumping. We put them all down on the ground and JK had to walk me through while she beat him with her head the whole way. After a few passes, I was able to walk her through myself. So JK and I decided we've over faced her and put the three jumps down to oh, as low as they will go. I walk her up she steps over, go back again, there's shooting, "I DON'T WANT TO GO HUMAN! I WANT TO SEE WHAT'S BACK THERE”. Okay, I snapped, I've had it. She's not afraid; she doesn't respect me at all. She doesn't have to listen to me and I'm a joke. Whack! Not hard, right behind the leg. She goes. Now it's not smooth, but she's paying attention to me. This isn't seamless but she is paying attention. After a few moderately successful passes, not at 800 mph, but not the way I'd like either, I decide we need to go and school in the dressage ring, which of course, she does not want to do. I've had enough and I'm not going to take it any more. We trot, we canter, I don't care if I make her uncomfortable, she can live with it and be appreciative when Elizabeth finally straightens me out. She shook her head in defiance the whole time, but she did what I wanted to do. Tomorrow, I'm not taking any more of her abuse. She's going to have to suck it up. I think I've been spoiling her wayyyyy too much. I hope you don't have to visit me in the hospital this week, but if I'm right, we've reached a new and important plateau. I hope I’m right.
◊ The day of my first jumper show -- ever - June 21, 2008
It was decided we would go to the show. I arrived at 7:30 am. Cherie wasn’t there yet, but good old JK came with me. We’ve worked together in racehorses for twenty years. I settled in and set everything up. Cherie arrived and said they didn’t have the course out yet. I tacked up and got on Birdie. We rode around and he was great. Cherie didn’t want me to jump until after I walked the course with her. Now two things are worth mentioning. One, I’ve never been to a jumper show, even as a spectator. Two, I’ve never walked a course.
It was time for our first course. It was me and my Baby Bird. I wasn’t worried about him. He never lets me down. I was worried about me messing everything up. As we jumped the course I was overcome with emotion. He was perfect. Perfect spots, perfect rhythm. He knew why we were there and I could hear him whisper in my head, “don’t worry human, I’ll take care of this.” I was so proud of him, he was so wonderful. SNAP OUT OF IT. They’re yelling at you, “There’s one more fence!!!” Yes, I almost messed it up, but instead we jumped clean and won the class. I won my first jumper class. Well, Birdie won it, but he let me come with him. Thank you Cherie. The second class was not as polished. Truth be told I was tired. We did jump clean, but not fast enough and ended up third. I’m not used to being tired from riding. At one point I galloped around thirty horses a day between the morning and the farm. It didn’t matter, this type of riding made me tired. I really need to work on fitness. ◊ My first warm up arena -- ever - June 20, 2008
It was only two days after the Jimmy clinic and we were supposed to go to our first jumper show. A very small show, a C rating, just a schooling for us to try it out. I told Cherie, I’d go to the warm up on Friday, but if Birdie was as full of anxiety, I wasn’t going to show him. It wasn’t fair to do that. I was dying to know if he would be upset though, since he had finally relaxed at the clinic.
Friday night, we went, it was only five minutes from my house. When we arrived, Birdie was keyed up, but I took him off by himself and rode a while. Still strong on the bit, we went into the warm up ring. Boy, what a circus. Horses going every which way. I told Cherie I’d never say anyone at the racetrack was a bad rider again after what I’d seen there. The most important thing is in less than fifteen minutes, Birdie was starting to relax. Cherie had me jump a few fences and I was horrible. I’d never been so bad. She told me to wait, stop getting ahead. I finally did one correct and she told me to stop. I don’t know what happened to my riding, but I was now worried about me, not Birdie.
◊ First Ride with Jimmy Wofford -- A cross country clinic - June 18, 2008Over the past year I’ve attended two or three clinics and lessons with Jimmy Wofford. Not as a rider, but helping my friend Cherie. I learned a lot and was impressed that I completely understood what he was talking about. Bear in mind I’m an exercise rider with a background in dressage. I never really learned to jump. I have jumped before, but never learned how. Truth be told, I never really had a desire to. I loved dressage, but couldn’t make a living at it. They’d pay me to ride at the track, so I went there. Racing has been very good to me and I don’t regret taking that path.
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Kimberly Clark 301-579-6898
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